great analogy about the pick pocket...

kinda of reminds me of the story the Buddha told. When someone fires an arrow into you, you don't try and find out who fired the arrow and what they are all about..you concentrate on getting the arrow out.

Its used to display a completely different point, but it reminded me of it.

Anyways. Good video.

Damn, man.... Hard-Hitting and On-Point, as usual.

I'm through... Jay Smooth is *THE* Hip-Hop Videoblogger! :D

I'll be the Heavy Metal Videoblogger.

Mad Props, as usual.

Jay,

You're not speaking wrong, but it feels like you're speaking idealistically. You're too right about the conversation being spun to "But I'm NOT A RACIST / HOW DARE YOU."

Thing is they're ALWAYS going to come at it from that point of view, because being called a racist has become more taboo than actually being one. People get more upset about the possibility they might have been called racist than the fact that their actions are racist as hell. They'll harp and linger on all their deeds in the past and what clubs they belong to and who their friends are. They'll START any rebuttal to your first words with that. And in the end you end up talking to yourself or talking to the wind, because they've drawn a crowd to chant the "I AM NOT A RACIST" mantra to the point where any on lookers without reading/listening to the whole thing, think that's what it's all about. Then people start picking sides and - boom- it's all over.

I don't think it's that there are people who don't know how to start the conversation and stay on point (in general). I think it's that people know how the conversation's going to go anyway. So they start off wanting to get that point in first - just so they've said it. Or they start off focusing on actions and once that first sentence is gone, they never get another chance to bring it back. There's no known strategy to get the conversation back on track. Either you're lucky and you get a person who's willing to listen, or you're unlucky.

Preach! This is mandatory watching for everyone to understand as you said to have a STRATEGY to approach the am I a racist conversation. As soon as anyone says to me, "I am not a racist," please don't say that even if you are not.

Prove that you are not a racist through your actions. When you declare this statement it proves to some people that you missed the point in teaching tolerance and that is to act in what you preach. Just DO!

Excellent video as always!

Wise wise words

Yo Jay Smooth... you're so ambiguously raced man... are you a black light skin?

Okay...so if I were to pursue the offender within the 'what you said/did was racist' conversation with the same acumen I would a pick pocket, what then? Wouldn't that just lead to the inevitable 'you are racist' conversation? If not that, then wouldn't the conversation's accusatory undertone result in the offender's exoneration on the grounds that 'he was raised (a certain way) to believe...'? Maybe, the conversation would flip in the offender's favor with either (take you favorite pick), "you're taking my words out of context", "you're being racist by always thinking I'm about to say something racist" or "you're being overly sensitive and you just want me to kiss your ass (reference:south park)". I don't know where I'm going with this.

You are right, but either is a tough conversation and since "undercover" racists spend their whole lives trying to be undercover, they have perfected the act of flipping the script in either scenario. I think many WPs (obviously not all) are so very sensitive about this issue that the mere insinuation that you might be thinking about considering the idea that they are racist just leads to a downward spiral of the conversation and the knee-jerk reactions that CSRealist cites at the end of his/her comment.

Well put!!!

Really the only approach to take if you want people to change. All the other approaches assume that they can't.

I could have so used this "how-to" guide last week. Let's just say I hit that point at my job where all the white people thought I was cool enough to bring all their grievences (sp?) against black people to me and demanded that I bless them with eternal knowledge to understand it or change all the behavior of black people. Let's just say this re-affirms my hatred of being the only black person white people know.

Are you talking 'bout something/someone specific?

Jay, that was very astute. Holding people accountable for their words and actions does seem to be the appropriate approach. The difficulty is for those that are holding the culprit to an accountability for said words or actions must maintain constant focus and verbal vigilance in order for it not to become about 'what they are'. So I agree. But I know from experience that you can't allow your anger or emotional feelings that may come out to derail 'what they did' to become 'what they are'. Difficult, but we all need to enhance our control and focus when these issues do arise. Preach on man. Keep doing what you do and saying it out loud. Love the videos.

This was excellent. Thanks for posting this. I'm gonna add this to my tabs.

Oh that horrible "A" word! Who wants to be accountable? Or worse, who wants to have the integrity and courage to hold someone accountable for something like racism.
You're on point with the accountable approach - can't squirm out of that one, esp if there is physical evidence to support...but racist do learn very early to master the art of the squirm.
A case in point: A neighbor yelled to a brother driving too fast through our block..."you effing n" in front of our son and his son!! Mind you we had just the day before, complimented him and his wife for being our 'saving grace' on the block! They had been so friendly ! Yikes what an eye opener.

Hubbie had to go have that accountability chat and had him apologize to our son. Of course the conversation went several times to his black friends and how much he is not a racist, but Chris brought it back each time to WHAT HE SAID!!
Yes indeed accountability is what it has to be about. It's the only way to go past the fact of racism to the healing process. Only the truth can work.
Thanks for this video!

Damn Jay, maybe your best yet. Talking about racism is such a touchy subject, you did it in an amazing way. Thanks for hitting us with truth yet again.

Superb.

This is fantastic, and I think it will be great for a discussion in my class. I feel like this is a step in the direction of focusing less on the individual (where we get into the whole identity thing, which is problematic because while people can be agents of racism or even identify as racist, racism itself resides in society) while at the same time holding people accountable, as you said, for the actions and their real effect on real people and real life.

However, it does strike me as though someone might just revert back to the "But I'm not a racist" rhetoric, at least at first. I wonder what George Lakoff would have to say about changing the racism conversation. I'll be thinking of that when I'm reading "The Political Mind". I was really happy, actually, to hear Lakoff address systematic racism on NPR.

Nice one Jay! Yeah you have to approach the discussion of racism carefully. You forgot to mention that when you focus on what they said not who they are you also elmininate the possibility of the "Race Card" rebutal which is a bogus argument to begin with but is often used.

As Batman said, "It is not who I am underneath, but what I do, that defines me." Wise words.

Words are powerful tools that can be used for good or bad. Many people don't take the time to really consider how powerful words can be.

"Sticks and stones may break my bones but words can never hurt me!"

Remember that from elementary school? Remember how much BS it really is when you think about it?

I GUARANTEE the ALL of us still have some scar from k-12 that we carry around with us because unlike the scratch or cut you got, "word wounds" DO NOT heal as cleanly. Sometimes not at all.

JSmooth - those are wise word tools for MANY situations. People need to THINK.

I believe if people would just take 2 seconds to engage their "brain-mouth filter" before saying ANYTHING the world would be a much better place.

I'm glad someone mentioned your blog on Twitter. It's one I will be watching from now on.

Thank you and rock on.

i'm sorry, but in a racist society where certain people are awarded white privilege, ALL white people are racist. its not about whatever your inner intentions are or if you're being PC or not, this is just the reality. of course its not the fault of any individual white folks, and of course they should try to examine how white supremacism has shaped their beliefs and relationships, and listen to people of color to support the struggle against white privilege, but until that has gone away they're still very much a part of that racism.

i dont like some white boy telling me how i should be having conversations about race, especially since you're convienently talking about it in a way that excuses you from being implicated as a racist.

ava,
he's not arguing that whites are or are not racist, he's instead commenting on a strategic way to confront people when racism becomes apparent in their words or actions.

also, if you followed his work closer, you'd know that he does not identify as a "white boy".

I love this..! So well put and easy to follow--whether you're a scholar or a 'tard.

Yay for Jay Smooth :-)

In my classroom I have conversations with my kids all the time about accountable language and addressing what people say rather than what they are. You just gave me something to show on the first day of school. Holler.

i chased down my wallet today and got it back, it felt good

I saw your face on The Colbert Report last night. How cool was that! You were on the video screen that Nas performed in front of. If I'm the hundredth person to tell you this today, oh well. :)

"Until somebody just blames it all on Hip Hop"
HAHA, so true

Another great post Jay, droppin pearls of knowledge as usual.

I'm really glad to see something like this crop up on the internet; I feel its what the internet was meant for - spitting out knowledge. I've had to have this conversation before with someone, and its really hard - especially since it can really be jarring to hear. A tactic I employ is questioning where they got their information from, attempting to attack the source instead of the person - or to simply point out a flawed interpretation.

I agree with you though, its easier to attack the stated facts that the person themselves, because then its not a personal attack or anything - its digging for something further.

Why can't you run for president? You make so much sense. Well...I guess that's why you can't run for president because you make too much sense. (No offense to Obama lol)

Awesome. Your videos are so fantastic, I had to send this one on - to my partner but also to a friend who I thought would appreciate your style. But upon further consideration I will be interested to hear what she has to say... I remember her saying once that shouldn't I consider that perhaps intelligence, as an average, is distributed on different scales with different races much as muscle mass and other genetic inheritances? I was shocked and still don't really know what to make of that.

I'm a New Zealander, white as colour-wise, brought up in a white trash suburb going to a school made up of poor whities, poor islanders and lots of Somalian immigrants. I'm 1/4 Maori, my grandmother was extremely dark-skinned and was called nigger at school. My Maori boyfriend at primary school (yup, I was 9 lol) got beaten up by white supremacist teenagers on the way to school. I don't look, sound or exactly relate as being Maori but it's part of me so I don't know where that figures in my friend's train of thought - she commented that as I was intelligent why would I be too close-minded to consider it? Fucking weird. She's a generous and kind person who cares about discrimination of all kinds so I just don't know what to make of that insight into her thought processes.

I could have so used this "how-to" guide last week. Let's just say I hit that point at my job where all the white people thought I was cool enough to bring all their grievences (sp?) against black people to me and demanded that I bless them with eternal knowledge to understand it or change all the behavior of black people. Let's just say this re-affirms my hatred of being the only black person white people know.

Posted by: Stealthgator at July 21, 2008 6:33 PM

Oh, my god, I can't believe people do that. It strikes me that the institutionalised racism in NZ is quite different to in America (assuming you're American). We've got plenty of backwards attitudes, but I just can't imagine many NZers being that thick - and rude. Jesus

@ Ava

You are right.

You are sorry.

SO TRUE! Love the way you distinguished between "what you said/did" and "what you are". Very helpful to know and use.

Mark :-)

first, you made some great points about the 'what you did vs who you are' styles of debate. however, I think you failed to realize the underlying racism that exists within the argument that you are making. what i mean is this: your only example of what types of words/jokes might be construed as racist involved watermelon, hip hop music and going back to africa. while these types of anti-black stereotypes to exist, racism can also be perpetrated against all people groups. putting a scowl on your face and speaking in a pseudo-proper high and mighty english accent is an obvious white stereotype and using words like judo flip to describe the public relations spin doctoring that occurs in the political/entertainment community could be offensive to many asians. I, for one, am tired of seeing the race debate carried out in such a way as to imply that the only racism that exists is whitey hatin' on black people. racism is everywhere and it goes in every direction...Jesse Jackson has made some of the most shockingly racist remarks during his lifetime--and he's always accusing white people...and some black people (barack) of being racist!! it makes me sick.

Great post, great logic, great analogy (using the wallet thief example).

AO
http://www.PardonMyFresh.com

OMG I just had the wrong kind of conversation you described with my BF about what he was saying about arabs, will have to try again with the good convo! This is perfect, thank you!

The problem with what is presented is that we can have a whole nation of "nice-speaking" people who are rabidly racist in their thoughts. The only way to eliminate racism is to get to the level of beliefs, because it is peoples' racist beliefs that lead to racist actions. Actions are easy to change, beliefs are hard. The other issue is that we can change people to no longer be racist, but the institutionalized racial privilege in this country will support the perpetuation of institutionalized racism. I can be as non-racist as possible in my words and actions, but still live in and passively accept intstitutionaled inequity. So, until society as a whole changes, how can racism be eliminated?

he isn't saying this is a cure all for racism, but rather a way to deal with it in a civil way. Racism is deep seeded in the psyche but what is wrong with a step I'm the right direction, even if there may or may not has been racist comments said in the clip (even as examples)? The point is your not going to cure the problem of race with one video. Maybe the problem started with categorizing our fellow man in classes of race so long ago. I'm going to finish up before this turns into a pointless rant.

Where you at Jay? Did you peep the news thats not on FOX?--NBC went in on them!!

great video...
To address the question raised by white man above:

To me to have less or no racist actions and yet still have racist thoughts is better than to have racist actions _and_ thoughts. But I'm a middle aged white fellow, so I may be all wrong on this.

How ironic, I was just having this talk with someone about a mutual "friend??" This post just gave me some insight on what I need to do. Thanks for this post.

You made it on alternet.org
Excellent job.

Keep doing your thing.

Found your website on alternet. You sir, are an inspiration to us all. Subscribed.

Great post. You change or influence people's behaviors, so put the focus there. This is classroom discipline 101 for teachers. Focus on the behaviors or the kid shuts down completely.

And just think about the law, too. People are allowed to think whatever they want. They can be the most noxious, virulent racists in the privacy of their own homes... but when they speak and act they are to be held accountable. You can't control what someone thinks... but you can seek to control behaviors. That's what the law does, and it's why your post is so on point.

Really good video. Unfortunately, I need to use some of these tactics to confront someone about something crazy that they said over the past weekend. Keep up the fantastic work.

Coming over, belatedly, from Angry Black Woman-- this is wonderful. Thanks for recording it!

hey man - i agree with this, but it's hard. people get really defensive and don't want to acknowledge the ways in which we all have racist assumptions culturally instilled in us through childhood, the media, institutions, etc. so, talking with a so-called liberal would probably be the hardest, as many liberals are just conservatives in disguise and don't understand things like institutional racism.

on the other hand, this past weekend i was in chicago for a ballgame and some douchebag was making overtly racist statements right behind me in a crowded L line. i had no idea what to do. i turned around and gave an annoyed look to his wife or whoever she was, but i'm small, so i couldn't turn around and intimidate him like i wish i could. not that that would be the best course of action. i should have had a pamphlet or something.

Very enlightening, thank you. I came across your blog while doing some research on racism.

YO! I like the way you think man. All facts and very logical.

Wow, that video was brilliant.

Good points, but for me I am also interested in why people say what they do because it's just so baffling to me, and I like to understand things. I wonder what motivates someone to think like that.

I included this video in my post on the subject.
http://laconicreply.wordpress.com/2008/08/19/what-do-you-do-about-obvious-racism/

I was wonder if a person have told something on someone and is different then what that they have put in there diary. Can that be used as evidence in a case by law.

HAHA! "Treat them like they stole your wallet" ... fantastic!

Excellent videos. I like this one in particular and "Less Talk, More Plumbing". Insightful. Thoughtful. You might want to consider a teaching career if you've got the time and energy.

You're stuff makes me want to rethink hip-hop (or at least not dismiss it out of hand). Can you recommend a good "Hip-hop for Dummies" resource?

Jay, I was surprised to have an opportunity to use this last weekend. Usually, I would just say nothing and think dark thoughts. Hard to hold family accountable, but I did get to create an uncomfortable situation without making anyone feel like I thought they were dispiccable. That's a first for me.

Wasn't sure if I should post this to the "open call for ideas" thread instead, but this seems more related: how do you get people to take your experience of racism "seriously"? I have friends/colleagues that dismiss my experiences in comparison to their own and have it devolve into the "oppression olympics"-- who's been more victimized by the system, which can be infuriating, because pain is pain, man. Yours may be greater, but that doesn't invalidate mine. It's not a matter of gaining sympathy or validation, really, but understanding?

God, hope that makes sense.

Sadly so many people just stay brainwashed about the way they see themselves or others.... if I was told I was stupid all my life it doesnt mean that I am stupid. If all my life I was told I am superior than others that doesnt make it true. You are on the right trak!! I luv this stuff. REALLY GOOD!

Excellent. Just excellent. OK?

I'm using my real name because I'm going to say something I truly mean.

Dude! You are one sexy man. And articulate, smart, talented, and witty. Bookmarked ya. Going to put ya on my blog, going to pass your little place around so others can take a peek. Open some minds and freak some out that thought they'd never hear anything hinting at hip-hop coming from me.

The economics vids are spot on. Been hanging out at The Agonist for a good long time, some good writing on economics there if you're so inclined or interested. Exactly about Paul Krugman.

Sometimes people say things at work like hey i am working with two black ladies today!and i feel like i was just separated from all the other workers on the floor because of my skin tone and i get ugly and beat myself up as i don't know what to say as that organization it is widely accepted to call someone of color black but i don't think it should be excepted to call any one out regardlessy6 of color and separate them from any other worker.I guess what I am saying is what can a person retort back i a positive way so that they don't act like the ignorant person who said it without coming out and looking to sensitive?

i have a problem with what this guy preaches for the fact that many people see racism in actions that aren't racist and will view that innocent person as being accountable.i for example intentionally moved from a predominantly black area to a predominantly white area of town to escape the crime attached to the predominantly minority areas. i don't hate blacks 'nor do i think less of them than i do whites or any other race.There are alot of people that would view my intent for moving from where i've moved and into my current area as being motivated by racism and it wouldn't matter what i said or how i explained it.
also,i hang with people of my own race only. my friends are the same way.we grew up with people of our color and we feel comfortable with that. again,i don't dislike 'nor have any disfavor with blacks or any other race.

but again some people would condsider a white person that only hangs with white people and moves into a white area to escape the crime associtaed with the densley populated black areas a racist. the focus is demographics and crime and a comfort zone regarding who i hang with..not racism.

but like i said ,alot of people would say otherwise.this is why i disagree with what this man says.he's actually not taking into consideration that alot of people mistake what's said or done as racism,and many times they're accusing someone mistakenly.
i understand what he's trying to say,but if everyone holds everybody they hear or see making a racist gesture (verbally or otherwise)alot of people would be unnecessarily explaining themselves all the time. all too many people have their own opinions as what is racism and what is not.if someone says that he/she doesn't date hispanics ,..is that person accountable to make give an explanation as to why not even though it's not a racist comment?? alot of people (unfortunately)see preference as discrimination,equating to prejudice or racism.

guy above. That preference you speak of, that comfort of a white man over a black, brown red or whatever it is, is tied to racism. You say you are more comfortable with a white guy than a black guy, what if they have the same personality traits and socio-economic status? where does your comfort lie? You make no sense, and basically all you seem to do is try to justify your racism by saying you prefer a color, seeing that color as comfort zone in and of itself can be and is the basis of your racism. For your information, black part of town doesn't always mean bad part of town. I am half white half middle eastern, I lived in a predominantly black neighborhood half my life and predominantly white for the other half...crime is everywhere, and is done by every color. Get a grip on yourself, see yourself for what you are...racist.

Race is funny. Neither black nor white wants to hear about the issues that face them as far as this topic is concerned. White people don’t want to hear that their ancestors brought Africans to this country and that our country’s economy is built on the backs of these slaves. Moreover whites don’t want to accept the fact that, maybe worse than slavery, all of the years since the Emancipation Proclamation have been a joke and that all of the racism that still exists comes out of the fear that a black person may be better than you.

Blacks don’t want to hear that slavery was a world wide epidemic and was a way of life. Slaves were traded within Africa, but the Europeans and the Arabs really made an art out of the slave trade partly based on the fact that they built societies which allowed them the freedom to travel far and wide and race made the idea of enslaving someone easier. Yes, Arabs also. Even though a lot of people try to make the point that the Arab slave trade was somehow more humane, it wasn’t really and still isn’t. And this isn’t to excuse any of it. I totally believe in Palestine’s right to exist. I also know how black soldiers have been treated in Iraq. It is also interesting that President (elect) Obama picked the child of a Zionist to be his Chief of Staff.

Blacks and whites don’t want to hear about white guilt. Yes, it exists. For me growing up in a lower socio-economic black neighborhood I couldn’t stand watching rich white liberals take pity on poor people and especially poor blacks. This whole, “yes I want to help, but I don’t want to live there” sort of mentality. Being a white person from the neighborhood made me sort of a novelty at the time.

Growing up in my neighborhood I went on to become a teacher in a few places including Harlem. A student asked me one day if I felt weird teaching them when I knew of everything that happened in the past. I told her I didn’t and then asked if they would rather have me, a teacher that believes in their ability and thinks they are as strong as any student in the country, or a teacher that pity them because they are poor and obviously they can’t do anything on their own.

I love Obama because he is ready to challenge everyone, he is change. Jesse Jackson wants to castrate him as to many other blacks and whites depending on what he says. A pull your self up by the bootstraps mentality does need to take hold for lower socio-economic communities as does an understanding of privilege. Everyone needs to start having this conversation and feel comfortable feeling uncomfortable. A great interview between Kam Williams and Shelby Steele; and, I know, Shelby Steele is a “conservative” because of the way he feels.

Yeah, that interview link (quick on the enter key on my last post). Two people comfortable with differences, yet still understanding. http://www.blackstarnews.com/?c=135&a=4280

this was so good
thanks

On your strategy of "holding people accountable for what they did"; you are assuming that you are in a position of judgment on that person for what they are doing in which you disagree. They on the other hand have just as much right to disagree and judge you for your action of seeking accountability against them. Your advice at that point becomes ineffective. The conversation will most assuredly be reduced to the "what you are" conversation for it is inevitable. Nice try though.

PTom: You are misunderstanding my video..

The conversation I'm suggesting does not at all assume a position of power for either side nor cast anyone as the ultimate "judge." It is presented simply as the best way to allow a fair hearing for BOTH sides, on equal terms.

It assumes as a given that the "accused" has an equal right to respond, and explain why they disagree with the accuser's assessment (by addressing it directly instead of dodging it). And it assumes that avoiding the "what they are trap" is the best way for BOTH sides to represent their view and have a fair/honest/constructive airing of their disagreement.

I know both from experience, and from many replies since I made this video, that it's fully possible for such a conversation to happen. It won't happen every time or even most of the time, but it's not at all impossible. And it's always worth striving for. (even when you fail, because to whatever extent it is a public discourse, maintaining a focus on the issues at hand makes the convo more useful for those observing, even when you come no closer to a common understanding with your antagonist)

Happened to come across this video online. Not bad, but I take issue with the notion that racism is the "final frontier". Not even close. There are a lot of social problems and prejudices in our society that are 100 times worse than racism these days. Just sayin'. Thanks for the vid anyway.

@NMSC

"There are a lot of social problems and prejudices in our society that are 100 times worse than racism these days."

This is true; but for every social problem and prejudice that exists, it seems that once you mix in racism, it gets infinitely worse. Poor? Poor and a minority, then it's all messed up. Female? Female and a minority, and a big mess.

Probably that's how it's the final frontier. Finding a way to remove racism so we can concentrate on fixing these other '100-times-worse' issues. And if we can step up and say, "Hey, that is racist," then someone will climb off their privileged soapbox and think about it.

That's really good advice, not just when dealing with racism, but when dealing with any kind of unacceptable behaviour. You can kind of ease it too by using the "sh!t sandwich" approach - tell 'em something you like about them, give 'em the "BUT what you just said sounded racist, because x, y & z - did you maybe mean it differently?" & have the "What you did..." conversation - and then if you get a good response, give 'em the third part of the sandwich, which is another bit of bigging them up - so they come away having learned something (not to make the watermelon jokes etc) but also feeling like they can get on with you & you're not enemies because you pulled them up over it.

Wonderful - simple, clear, pithy, elegant, and most of all: extremely useful. You've made clear one of the basic tenets of communication & confrontation - stick to the facts, Jack - and applied it to dealing with racist statements. Such conversations have a better chance of succeeding- i.e., actually reaching the person - when they are confined as closely as possible to "what happened" as opposed to "here's what I claim I know about why it happened." Thank you - I'll be passing this on.

“Remember, when the judgment’s weak, the prejudice is strong.” - Kane O’Hara, Midas. Act i. Sc. 4.

"The most violent element in society is ignorance." - Emma Goldman

"I imagine that the reason that people cling to their hate so stubbornly is because they are afraid that if they let go of the hate, they will have to deal with pain." - James Baldwin, Notes of a Native Son

@Rebecca: May I suggest you re-read your post and watch the video again?

i think wat u said wss absolutely rite,people should be judge on wat dey do as a person nn how dey act not whoo dey are rr their culture rr enthcity.aisha frm gleman's clazz

BRILLIANT!!!

STATION!

okay ... wat'd he just say ?

i couldnt even keep up let alone agree or disagree .

Keep working ,great job.

I think this guy has good reasoning and good ways to confront someone about being racist. I also believe that people are too worried about being racist. Unless someone is purposely insulting you by criticizing your race, i don't think it is a big deal.

I like your argument, people should be confronted because of their actions not who they are. Like you said it is easier to confront someone about a statement they made than telling them they are racists.

THANK you.

Here's a transcript of the video for those who prefer text:

Race, the final frontier, no matter what channel you watch, no matter what feed you aggregate, it seems like everybody everywhere is talking about race right now. And when everybody everywhere is talking about race, that means sooner or later you're gonna have to tell somebody that they said something that sounded racist. So you need to be ready and have a plan in place for how to approach the inevitable "that sounded racist" conversation, and I'm going to tell you how to do that.

The most important thing that you've got to do is to remember the difference between the "what they did" convesation and the "what they are" conversation.

Those are two totally different converations and you need to make sure you pick the right one. The "what they did" conversation focuses strictly on the person's words and actions and explaining why what they did and what they said was unacceptable. This is also known as the "that thing you said was racist" conversation, and that's the conversation you want to have.

The "what they are" conversation on the other hand takes things one step further and uses what they did and what they said to draw conclusions about what kind of person they are. This is also known as the "I think you are a racist" conversation. This is the conversation you don't want to have, because that conversation takes us away from the facts of what they did and into speculation about their motives and intentions, and those are things you can only guess at, and can't ever prove, and that makes it too easy for them to derail your whole argument. And that is the part that is crucial to understand.

When you say "I think he is a racist" that's not a bad move because you might be wrong, that's a bad move because you might be rigth. Because if that dude is really a racist, you want to make sure you hold him accountable and don't let him off easy. And even thoughintuitively it feels like the hardest way to hit him is just run up on him and say I think his ass is racist, when you handle it that way, you're actually letting him off easy. Because you're setting up a conversation that is way too simple for him to derail and duck out of.

Just think about how this plays out every time a politician or celebrity gets caught out there. It always starts out as a "what they did" conversation. But as soon as the celebrity and their defenders get on camera, they start doing judo flips and switching it into a "what they are" conversation. "I have known this person for years and I know for a fact that they are not a racist. How dare you claim to know what's inside their soul just because they made one little joke about watermelon, tap dancing, and going back to africa."

And then you try to explain that we don't need to see inside their soul to know they shouldn't have said all that about the watermelon. And you try to focus on the facts of the situation, but by then it's too late because the "what they are" conversation is a rhetorical bermuda triangle where everything drowns in a sea of empty posturing until someone just blames it all on hip-hop and we forget the whole thing ever happened. Don't let this happen to you.

When somebody picks my pocket, I'm not gonna be chasing him down so I can figure out whether he feels like he's a thief deep down in his heart. I'm gonna be chasing him down so I can get my wallet back. I don't care what he is, but I need to hold him accountable for what he did. And that's how we need to approach these conversations about race. Treat them like they took your wallet and focus on the part that matters, holding each person accountable for the impact of their words and actions. I don't care what you are. I care about what you did.

I think one issue with saying "that sounded racist" is that "sounded" can sometimes get a very loose interpretation. I just saw a thread where someone said something completely without any discriminatory words and someone on the thread completely misquoted them and then said something to the effect of 'it sounds to me like you want to discriminate and not get called on it'.

It was an assumption of bad faith.

But I don't think you can take someone's words or behaviour, find the worst possible interpretation behind those words/behaviour, and call it valid.

For example, not every cop who arrests a black man is racist.

And if you see a cop arrest a black man, and assume the cop must be racist, then that's an assumption of bad faith. Yes, some cops are racist. Yes, the issue of racial profiling is a real issue. But it's still incorrect to take one cop arresting a particular black person and assume it must be racially motivated. That would require determining intent. And intent is a quagmire.

Say someone someone describes Obama as "articulate and bright and clean". You could assume bad faith and say that racists use inarticulate and dirty to describe blacks, therefore this guy must be a racist of some kind. But Jay said not to go into intent, just talk about how it "sounds", so you try to use that advice, and you come out and say "it sounds to me like you're a flaming racist".

Don't take the "that sounds racist" and use it as a smoke screen to try and make accusations about the person's intent. It's just as bad and just as much a quagmire.

Thanks so much for this video. I tried to talk to a friend about this tonight and did a really lousy job.

I have tried to find suggestions on how to handle touchy situations like this, but there isn't a lot of info available specifically about how to have the conversation with someone. I live in the South and, at times, it can be merely a case of ignorance, rather than bad intent.

If it should come up again, the idea of keeping it about what they did/said (only) will really help me. I learned something from your short clip. Thanks again.

Do you have a blog about how to tell a person they sound like they want to be black?

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"Everybody says there is this RACE problem. Everybody says this RACE problem will be solved when the third world pours into EVERY white country and ONLY into white countries."

"The Netherlands and Belgium are more crowded than Japan or Taiwan, but nobody says Japan or Taiwan will solve this RACE problem by bringing in millions of third worlders and quote assimilating unquote with them."

"Everybody says the final solution to this RACE problem is for EVERY white country and ONLY white countries to "assimilate," i.e., intermarry, with all those non-whites."

"What if I said there was this RACE problem and this RACE problem would be solved only if hundreds of millions of non-blacks were brought into EVERY black country and ONLY into black countries?"

"How long would it take anyone to realize I'm not talking about a RACE problem. I am talking about the final solution to the BLACK problem?"

"And how long would it take any sane black man to notice this and what kind of psycho black man wouldn't object to this?"

"But if I tell that obvious truth about the ongoing program of genocide against my race, the white race, Liberals and respectable conservatives agree that I am a naziwhowantstokillsixmillionjews."

"They say they are anti-racist. What they are is anti-white."

"Anti-racist is a code word for anti-white."

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very nice ... probably it can applied else where also when one can not exacly find the right argument to make the other person realize who is right and who is wrong.

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The bigger problem is people not knowing what the word "racist" means, whether you say that what someone DID is racist or that they ARE a racist. Bandying about the word "racist" without a proper understanding of the word is reckless and you perpetuate that with this garbage video.

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I know how it feels they might not say it, but they show that they are racist. Ive been in that position and I have to grow with it and im only 12 it hurts when they throw things on our window I dont live with my dad only my mum and sister i feel like i need to move. But life is like that, very upsetting i cry sometimes in my pillow bcos i cannot do nothing to stop it people might think a child can do alot but they cant. I feel like i want to kill my self and kill those people that do it but really.....I really feel like nobody.

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